To till or not to till

Discussion in 'The Village Square' started by Northerner, Jul 26, 2018.

  1. Northerner

    Northerner Mean Bean

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    I'm sure this has been covered but I think it's a subject worth covering. When should you till? The benefits and setbacks of a tilled or non-tilled garden. When I established my garden this spring, it was on virgin soil. So I chose to till since the ground was hard packed. The problem I ran into was that it rained quite a bit after I tilled and the ground still seemed packed when I started planting. not sure if it is constraining root development but I do know I'm dealing with a couple problems. So next year I would like to shoot for a no till situation. In the fall I plan to stick a fork in the soil, cover it with chopped up leaves and tarp it off. Come the spring I would hope to have better soil conditions. I just want to make sure I'm moving forward by correcting the mistakes of this year. So discuss. I mean it's soil. It what allows us to provide for ourselves.
     
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  3. Cayuga Morning

    Cayuga Morning Strong Ash Plants Contributor

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    @Northern,
    I am newly trying no till too. I have seen how hard packed soil gets if not protected by a layer of mulch.

    I have spread hay all over my community garden plot. I used hay, not straw because it is supposed to be more nutritious for the plants . So far I have not had a problem with hay seeding itself. It has suppressed weeds and is now decomposing nicely. I plan to add more organic matter on top....? this fall??

    Maybe we can get @Sjoerd to weigh in on this topic. He's a whiz at this sort of thing.
     
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  4. Sjoerd

    Sjoerd Mighty Oak

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    Ahhh...a subject dear to my heart. Or ought I to say, "subjects", for there are two things mentioned here--mulching and soil tilling.
    I have been practising what is technically known as "min-tilling" for many years now. In fact I believe that I have made comments on it here in past years. Here is a link to a page from my old website which explains min-tilling as I do it.---

    http://www.volkstuindersvereniginghoornenomstreken.nl/Page18.html

    I find it difficult to do no-tilling in my lottie because there is always a reason why I must till, whether it is to remove tap-root weeds, making furrows to plant corn, spuds or leeks in...or to harvest spuds. This is esoteric hair-splitting I know; however, it is certainly a form of tilling. I do not till the soil in the flower garden until it it time to remove bindweed, ground elder or mare's tail.

    The second aspect of this thread deals with mulching--also something in which I strongly believe. There are many ways to do this, and your plans seem sound to me. I have also written on this subject a number of times on here.

    https://www.gardenstew.com/threads/preparing-the-beds-for-next-season.34085/#post-310826

    I wonder if you have analysed your soil yet. It almost sounds as if you have a clay-based soil type. If this is so then you may have to till-in some "structure" over a period of several years to avoid the compacting.

    Thanks for the endorsement, Cayu.
     
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  5. Northerner

    Northerner Mean Bean

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    So I finally got around to reading everything you posted sjoerd. I want to learn as much as possible about soil. for if your soil isn't right, nothing else will be. I established my veggie plot this spring. I had the soil tested and I learned my soil wasn't to bad, but my PH was alittle high (7.3). I did use a tiller to break ground and I tilled in some rotting leaves from the previous fall that didn't get raked up. Then I mixed in some commercial bagged composted manure. This year I plan to use your min-till meathod. I don't have a compost bin made yet, so would raking up leaves into the plot and chopping them up with the lawnmower work as well as compost? I was thinking about covering the plot with a black tarp. I don't have the greenery to stack on top of it. I figured the tarp would kill and weeds and help warm up the soil in the spring. And should I get the soil retested? If so, should I have it done in the fall or the spring?

    What EM-1 soil conditioners would you suggest if any?
     
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  6. marlingardener

    marlingardener Happy

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    Northerner, covering the soil with a black tarp will kill weeds and warm the soil, but it will also kill beneficial microbes in the soil. A heavy layer of mulch will do almost as well, and be beneficial, too.
    We chop leaves and use them as mulch in the raised beds (wish we had more leaves). Just be careful of using too much acidic leaves like beech or oak leaves fresh. As leaves decompose, they lose much of their acidity.
    Since this is your second year with the vegetable garden, I'd go ahead and get the soil tested. It may save you money in that you aren't buying unneeded additives, and it will give you an idea on how well your previous additions worked.
     
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  7. Northerner

    Northerner Mean Bean

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    Ok, so a question about mulch... I'm having issues currently with the 3" of wood chips I covered the garden with in the spring. It stays wet for way to long. I turned my irrigation off but after a week it's still moist to the tip of my fingers when I dig passed the mulch. My garden grows mushrooms and its stressing out my tomatoes. My soil is partially clay like. Is my best bet to loosen with a fork, add some leaves or compost and mulch it in? Anything else I can do to prevent compaction? I don't want to till again and make it worse.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  8. fatbaldguy

    fatbaldguy In Flower

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    https://meadowcreature.com/broadforks

    One of the above will help to get organic matter deeper into the soil without damaging the soil biota too much. Changing soil structure and composition takes time. A lot of it. Years. I've literally put tons of various organic matter onto my vegetable garden and have only a few inches of quality soil, anything under that is heavy yellow sticky clay. I still get pretty decent results.

    As for the wood chips, I made the same mistake three years ago. Mixing some nitrogen into the chips with a rake will help with the decomposition. If you are attempting to be 'organic' use alfalfa pellets used for rabbit feed. If not, pelletized urea nitrogen is available from most farm supply places in fifty pound bags relatively cheap ($25 or so). Mix the nitrogen in after harvest is complete, hope for an indian summer as it will work better with warmer temps. Nitrogen is transient in the soil, so there will be little chance of having too much in your garden plot in the spring.

    Pile your leaves up and save them for the spring. If you can 'turn' them a time or two, they will break down nicely, especially if they've been chopped with a mower. Use the resultant 'leaf mould' as a mulch around plants in the spring.

    I think you will be surprised and pleased with the increased earthworm activity, which will get a lot of the organic matter moved more deeply into the soil naturally. Mother Nature's mini tillers so to speak.

    Compost is also a fantastic ph buffer. It will naturally help your soil to a neutral ph. Sulpher will work quickly, but again is quickly used by the soil microbes. A sulpher treatment should last two years, maybe three. Make sure to use agricultural sulpher should you go this route.

    As with any advice, YMMV. Read and follow all label instructions, thank you for shopping with us, have a nice day, please come again.
     
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  9. Northerner

    Northerner Mean Bean

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    Well a tool like that carries a heafty price tag. I've got an old fashioned pitch fork which should work for me. You think sand or vehmiculite would be a good amendment to help drainage?
     
  10. fatbaldguy

    fatbaldguy In Flower

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    Speaking from experience here, your old fashioned pitch fork will bend and break. A proper digging fork is better, but it also is not sturdy enough for what is needed. If you have a tiller, use it. Use it sparingly. Where the tines reach the deepest is where they will 'beat' the subsoil and compact it, creating hard pan. That is why I recommend a broad fork. A tool such as that is a one time investment. Buy once, cry once.

    As for sand, the volume of sand needed to improve your drainage will be much, much greater than you might think. Too little and your clay based soil will become the equivalent of concrete. Three to four inches of coarse sand would need to be mixed thoroughly with the top five to six inches of soil to have any appreciable effect. That is based upon what type of clay soil I have, yours may be greater or lesser. Contact your County Extension Service to discover what type of soil you have. Even then, drainage depends upon the surrounding soil structure as well. Personal experience has taught me that slow and steady improvement of the garden soil extends to the surrounding soil as well. Improving drainage overall. Compost and organic matter will do no harm in the long run.
     
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  11. Northerner

    Northerner Mean Bean

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    Well if I can talk the wife into dropping $260, lol. Thanks for the advice, maybe if I save throughout the winter it'll happen.
     

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