ID for 2 volunteers?

Discussion in 'Plant ID' started by vitrsna, Jun 11, 2015.

  1. vitrsna

    vitrsna Seedling

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    Does anyone know who these 2 are? P1010388a.jpg

    P1010394a.jpg
     
  2. Jerry Sullivan

    Jerry Sullivan Garden Experimenter Plants Contributor

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    Well, at least the first pix has some unique leaf forms, reniform for primary and lanceolate for secondary leaves. That might help narrow down the possibilities. Unfortunatly I am not familiar with the 'weeds' that grow up in a back yard in Mexico. It should make for an interesting hunt. I'm off to hunt in the recesses of the internet....

    Jerry
     
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  3. vitrsna

    vitrsna Seedling

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    Thanks Jerry...many (most) of the plants that show up in my yard are also found in the usda zones 10 or 11 in southern Florida and/or in southwest Texas so i don't think you will find them as exotic as you might expect...seeds get around and take hold in climates agreeable to them...and Mother Nature doesn't give a hoot about borders:). Something tells me these are not weeds but rather seedlings from cultivated plants/trees perhaps deposited by birds. These aren't the usual "weeds" that i am accustomed to seeing. "Reniform"...thanks for the vocabulary, this is a good word to know. Thanks for your help, and don't get lost in the recesses. I think the detail in the 1st photo is good and you can see that the first true leaves are also serrated. I can provide a better photo of the veining in the second seedling if that will help. Some detail is not so evident when the original photo size is so much reduced.
     
  4. vitrsna

    vitrsna Seedling

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    Hi Jerry...I have been searching for "reniform seedling leaves" in the loveable and goofy google images and also sketches in scientific publications and i have found no matches in either places (with that deep indentation). You would think it would show up in the scientific sketches, but no, not that i have found. As i was going down the google images i found no matches...but then, when i was half way down. There is was a seedling leaf exactly like mine! Then i focused on the entire image and it was mine (compliments of gardenstew)...egad! I am pretty sure if i find an image (other than my own) with information attached to it, i will be very close to identifying the seedling leaf...it is rare, or perhaps it is called something else than "reniform", maybe something starting with "di" (that means 2, right?). What do you think?
     



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  5. Jerry Sullivan

    Jerry Sullivan Garden Experimenter Plants Contributor

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    Interesting that you should 'find' your own post. I have done that a couple of times. Those search robots are ever vigilant. I have not had a chance to hunt today, maybe tonight. I am inclined to focus on the secondary leaves. Using different filters on your search sometimes yields a different direction to look. Next time you are in a garden center, perhaps you can wave the picture in front of the 'local expert'.

    Jerry
     
  6. vitrsna

    vitrsna Seedling

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    Well, there is a man who owns a nursery that seems to be somewhat knowledgeable and i can carry the photo in my camera up to him to see what he has to say. He will at best give me 20 names in various indigenous languages of what the plant is called if he knows. Actually, i do have a reference book (written in 1964 by a scholar matching indigenous names and local names to scientific names of native plants) so if i knew an indigenous name, i could probably find the scientific name. Historically, people in different regions call the plant whatever they want. For example Asclepias curassavica has about 20 known different common names in the country but none of those names is known in Colima. In short, there are no local experts. The people at the University of Colima do not communicate with the public. So perhaps this gives you an idea of what i am up against. Also one nursery will call a plant one thing and another nursery will call a plant something else. They are in the business of selling plants and have more than likely never in their lives looked at seedling leaves. There are 94 botanical gardens in Mexico and some are quite large, but they do not reply to emails for information, ever. I've written to maybe 60 of the 94 regarding certain plants and received one response that was not helpful. There is a government agency CONABIO that i will send the seedling photo to but i will not receive a response. If you don't want to help, forget about it.
     
  7. Jerry Sullivan

    Jerry Sullivan Garden Experimenter Plants Contributor

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    Plant identification is sometimes a challenge and while it is not a burning issue I have printed off the photo and will continue the search. I try not to use common names. Latin names are best and provide a solid reference.As the plant matures it may help to see the structure of the plant. The secondary leaves are the best bet as few botanical sites dwell on a plants first leaves. Right now the plant falls into the same category of a Gardenstew plant named George.

    Jerry

    P.S. Next time I am at a local botanical garden that has a large collection of indoor plants I will show the picture.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
  8. vitrsna

    vitrsna Seedling

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    I am quite certain that my plant is not named "George", how cute. What i need is a botanist who has some academic research skills so i will proceed searching in that direction. Also, i have found a nature ID online service provided by the government of Mexico that i will pursue. There are probably more botanists in the US studying the fauna and flora of Mexico than there are in Mexico so where a botanist is, is not significant. I'll probably find my answer from someone in Wisconsin and if not an answer at least some information that will point me in the right direction. Not only was my photo posted, but my avatar was posted and appears in google's "reniform seedling leaves"... now that is hilarious. So robots do this? I thought GS and other similar websites sold photos for income. I don't see any ads on GS, so it must earn money some way. My photos are free to anybody, so that has never bothered me, but i do wonder about your robot assumption.
     
  9. toni

    toni Mistress of Garden Junque Staff Member Moderator Plants Contributor

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    Nope, Frank does not sell photos.

    If you are talking about the link to your topic that shows up in a Google search for reniform seedling leaves ... that is from a robot aka web crawler. They are always scouting through GardenStew and thousands of other forums or sites to see what is out there. In fact there are 26 robots searching through GardenStew as I type this.
    If you click on Forums just under the GardenStew banner at the top of the page, look to the right under you avatar, there is a list of members now on line, then under that is a total of members, visitors and robots on line at that time.

    If that is not the link you are referring to, post a link to what you found so that Frank can check it out.
     
  10. Frank

    Frank GardenStew Founder Staff Member Administrator

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    Hi Bev, ads are shown to non-members only. Photos are never, ever sold. The reason you may see your photo in a Google search result is that the Google web crawler (named Googlebot) visits any website it can get its hands on and copies information/images that it can display in its search results. If you remove the image from the originating website then the image will disappear in Google's results as well.
     
  11. vitrsna

    vitrsna Seedling

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    Okay, thanks Frank. I appreciate that the "guests" are exposed to ads and the members are protected. Looking at the numbers there are quite a few guests. I'm not nosy, i'm investigative...i like to know how things work. I don't really care where my photos end up when i post them. I think it is funny that my caterpillar avatar comes up in a google search for "reniform seedling leaves" :)
     
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  12. Cayuga Morning

    Cayuga Morning Strong Ash Plants Contributor

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    Could the second one be a mimosa seedling? Are there any Mimosas in your area? (Albizzia julibrissin)
     
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  13. vitrsna

    vitrsna Seedling

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    Thank you CM! I appreciate your input. Not Mimosa (yes we have them here), whose leaves i believe close up when touched? It is a Fabaceae and is growing quite nicely. I thought it might be a tree but as it grows, it is looking very much like the shrub Senna (Cassia) mexicana (possibly var. Chapmanii) which will have lovely yellow flowers and is a host plant for Sulphur butterflies. Well it doesn't have flowers yet, but this is what it is looking like it is going to be. I was sort of hoping for a tree that would provide some filtered shade to this area but i'm leaving this one where it chose to grow. I may move some things around later. The only reason it is still growing is because i put some aluminum foil around the base of the stem (maybe trunk) so my giant, hungry, transparent slug doesn't eat it and so far so good. I cannot for the life of me find that slug...that crafty bugger ate all my Lupine seedlings.
     
  14. Cayuga Morning

    Cayuga Morning Strong Ash Plants Contributor

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    Good for you vitrsna. It sounds like you certainly know what you are doing! I have used aluminum foil too, to "foil" slugs & cutworms. Good luck with your gardening & your butterfly haven.
     
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  15. vitrsna

    vitrsna Seedling

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    Thanks CM, since we last talked, i found the giant slug, a medium-sized slug, and 4 wee baby slugs. They are humanely no more. The plant we spoke of is a Caesalpinia pulcherrima (i will need to double check the species as it grows larger) and it will be a nice provider of filtered sun one day. It is also a host plant for some small butterflies and a super nectar plant. Things grow very fast here. The other seedling pictured is a member of the Magnolia family and i am growing it to find out more specifically its identity. Many blessings for an abundant plot/or lot.
     

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