Organic vs. Heirloom vs. Hybrid seeds

I got the go ahead for my garden plans and before I get everything ordered I was hoping to have a quick discussion on seeds. Here is my understanding on the topic.

Organics are not heirlooms but you can harvest the seeds from them to grow for the next season. Organics are produced without the use of chemical or artificial fertilizers, insecticides, etc...

Heirlooms are a strain that can be dated back to around the 1940's or later and are at least 3 generations old. These are as close as you get to the original strains and the seeds can be harvested to grow for future generations.

Hybrids are the offspring of 2 different parent plants which result in a new plant. Hybrids seem to grow faster and produce more, but must be purchased every year. This means they are not a good choice for sustainability. Seeds, however, can be used but will more than likely result in the plant being one of the two parent plants used.

Is this information correct? I did a quick bit of research and wanted to make sure. I would like to have the ability to collect the seeds for next season . That being said I think heirloom or organics would be the best choice, right? I feel in this day and age having a sustainable source of crops would outweigh the choice of using hybrids.

 

Organic seeds are derived from plants grown organically and the seeds themselves are not treated. Some organic seeds are heirloom varieties, and some aren't.
Heirloom, as you said, has to be a variety that pre-dates 1951, when hybrids became prevalent. Heirloom varieties are also open-pollinated (OP) which means you can save the seed and get the same plant next year.
Hybrids are a cross between two or more varieties and have been bred for specific qualities (hardiness, disease resistance, color, size, etc.). Seed from hybrids is either sterile or will not reproduce the mother plant.
We plant heirlooms, some organic seeds, and also some hybrids. I am of the gardening opinion that hybrids are not bad, they just aren't the only option.
When ordering seeds, I consider how much I want (Brandywine tomatoes will give me two or three tomatoes per plant, Celebrities will give me a couple of dozen); the taste I want (super-sweet corn doesn't match our tastes, so I go with an older but still hybrid variety); and the adaptability to our climate (Packman broccoli gives us two nice crops a year, but other varieties don't).
Gardening is a grand experiment, and denying yourself any one type of seed because of perceived advantages or disadvantages before giving it a try may deny you a delicious vegetable or gorgeous flower.

 

How well do you like to eat ? If you had a choice of doing a job for a small paycheck or the same work for a large paycheck, which would you choose ?
Its like that with seeds and plants. Heirlooms do not produce like hybrids yet you do the same work. Like MG said organics have to do with how they are grown and can be either one. Personally,, plants are so cheap why not just cut your time and work down and let the nurseries do the hard work of getting them to planting size. Unless you have a really good setup, a greenhouse or something similar, you can not do the starting nearly as well as they can. If you want some heirlooms for seeds, thats fine, but the hybrids are the ones that will feed you. Thats my personal opinion.

 

Organic is a method, not a type of seed. It means "to be grown with out synthetic (or man made) chemicals".

Open Pollinated is not necessarily an heirloom, but the concept is the same, you can save the seeds and have a "true to the parent off spring" from the seeds you saved. An Heirloom means that some one saved the seeds and kept them in a family for several generations before sharing them with other people and the seed saved will be "true to the parent" plant when germinated and grown again. Take "Jupiter" peppers for example, it is an open pollinated pepper, but not an heirloom (to my knowledge) since it was developed for commercial growing. I can save the seeds and grow them the next year, but that doesn't make it an heirloom. My family didn't keep saving the seeds and handing them down from one generation to the next. A breeder developed this and released it to the public.


I get a germination rate very similar to heirlooms from my hybrids. Most hybrid seeds can be saved and will germinate, the theory being that you will not get a true to the parent plant, maybe similar, maybe not, but something will grow most likely.. Not all hybrids are sterile, only some of them, such as the marigolds that are triploids, not diploids. They don't set seeds, and are pretty expensive to buy.
Heirlooms don't have a lot of disease resistance, which is why the hybrids are much more popular for gardening with some people. I grow both just because there are fruits/flavors/textures that are desired by some people and others just don't care, a green pepper is a pepper, a tomato should be red, a zucchini is green...etc. is what some people think. other people want a specific variety or expect the fruit to taste like something other than wet card board (such as Mountain Fresh tomatoes, which are grown for their durability for shipping, not their flavor). I prefer hybrids myself. I have not found many heirlooms that I just LOOOOOOVE. I have been sorely disappointed by many of them, although I am trying new ones again this year, I hope to be very impressed. Most of the ones I am trying this year are not mainstream varieties. Wish me luck!


"Organic" is kind of a media blitz...just because something is organic does not mean it was not sprayed with anything, it means that what it was sprayed with was a product derived from "living or once living" matter, something produced or a by product of nature. Not all "organic" compounds or derivatives are safe or healthy. It does not mean you can take a bath in the product or inhale it with out some toxicity to you. Rotenone has has been removed from the market, but it was a very effective pesticide derived from a tree in Africa, but the harvesters were being killed by the toxicity of the sap while harvesting it. Pyrethrum is made from Painted Daisies, the flowers are pretty, but when processed it becomes a neuro-toxin...DE is a great product, but please don't inhale it....it will ruin your lungs over time... Copper is a great organic fungicide, but it is a heavy metal and becomes toxic over time after over exposure to it and it doesn't take a lot to be over exposed. Most of the products, whether organic or synthetic, need to have much caution and common sense used while working with them. Follow the instructions precisely.


Marlingardener is spot on about the production of the heirlooms, you may only get a few tomatoes per plant. some years I have gotten 0. Frost got them before they ripened.
Peppers and eggplant are much harder to germinate than tomatoes. I always use a heat mat and give them a month more of growing time than tomatoes. I grow a lot of hybrids because they are dependable for production. There are those that have great flavor, too. There are many reasons to try both. Use what meets your needs or your values. If you are determined to use only organic and heirlooms plan to do a lot of reading to figure out ahead of time a plan to keep the diseases at bay or under control. What are you going to have available when you need it? Where are you going to get it? If it is as dry as last year, I pray not, there are other pressures on the plants besides disease, spider mites are a terrible pest and are prolific in hot dry weather. there is not a great control available for mites. Most importantly though, is the soil in your garden. It needs to be very nutritious! amended with much organic additives such as manure. Well composted if you use anything other than rabbit. Rabbit droppings can be put on fresh. Healthy soil will grow healthy plants.

I hope this isn't information overload, but please ask again/anything if you still have questions. Especially if you are even more confused now that we have all answered you with a little different twist due to what has been our experience.

 

@ mart
I do enjoy eating some veggies especially peppers. As you said you grow hybrids because they produce more, this is the reason I am sticking to a hybrid pepper, better production. However, my main concern is sustainability which is having the ability to collect the seeds and grow them next year. This would really be helpful if something major was to happen, like a depression.

@ carolyn keiper
I agree organic is a method of growing, but looking at several websites that sell seeds you will see them listed into the three categories of hybrid, organic, or heirloom. I'll also agree that organic is a media blitz, and yes, just because it says it is organic doesn't mean it is.

@ everyone
Thanks for all the information, I have learned a nice bit from each of your post. Certainly an interesting discussion.

 

Then just buy whatever heirloom seeds you want and grow them but don`t depend on them if there were a depression.

 

This is hand-me-down knowledge. My parents lived through the Great Depression in the '30's. They lived next to my paternal grandparents, and shared about an acre of yard. Of course they had a huge garden. My grandpa was a retired farmer, and never bought a garden seed in his life. He traded seeds with friends and other gardeners. During the depression they had so many seeds and so many varieties that they expanded the garden!
During hard times, people somehow become more generous. I don't think you need to worry about the lack of seeds in future. Shoot, you can get a bunch of them here just for postage!

 

Right MG. I would worry more about having enough tomatoes canned to last me through the winter. Thats where the hybrids come in.

 

GM means "genetically modified" to make seeds/plants produce better; make them non-productive, or produce morphodites. Go to site "Monsanto Seeds Companies List"; just SEE what's been altered with CHEMICALS and WHY those seeds..from plants..can't be "saved" for future use! Heirlooms DO have their problems, TRUE! Organics MAY have had plants "violated" by winds blowing in pollen from non-organic fields (you never KNOW there!)but for some reason, the HEIRLOOMS seem to be the BEST producers of what's wanted in the vegetables, despite the work involved. Monsanto has their HAND in trying to "wipe out" heirlooms; really isn't doing US gardeners any FAVORS in the process..I won't even BUY from their companies anymore; am taking MY chances on ones that aren't GM..and having EXCELLENT results! I'd rather have pure than being "poisoned" thru my home-grown produce...think about it, fellow gardeners, ONLY trying to HELP.